http://www.kenalu.com/2008/08/17/starboard-dealer-meeting-general/

I thought this part was interesting:

yeah , that was interesting ... I think one of the issues is can SUP boards be developed that really function well as longboard sailboards. ...?
The kayak market is way bigger than the windsurf market and there are tons of folks paddling around on kayaks ... I have already gotten lots of comments on folks asking me about SUP as I paddle around on my Bic Jungle ... standup in flat water is easily accessible for most folks without a learning curve and a board that can double as an easy windsurfer would be very attractive to folks plunking down big bucks on a SUP board ...

so far my experiences with the Bic Jungle , show that such a board can be developed and work well.. I also like the looks of the new 2009 12-6 Starboard with the fully retractable daggerboard ...

The Kona One has also , of course , had some folks using it as an SUP board .. but my impression is that is really on the sailing side more then the SUP side of the equation .

There are a lot of SUP's now with a simple mast step hole , but without a daggerboard system I wonder how well those really function as longboard sailboards...

Cynical methinks they want to open more market in order to make more money. No big introspection there.

The same manufacturers have created their own implosion with the performance approach (i.e. buy a sail for each knot and this year's boards because the pros do it). Of course the market got fed up with all the spending with no return (unimproving skills). I'd be embarrassed too if I'd spent all that money year after year for the same level of sailing - gee, I'd pick up kiting perhaps?

Seriously, it's up to individuals to decide what they like to do in their leisure time, and pick up their activity in a sporty way rather than a Tupperware way.

I have about two (old) boards and 2 1/2 much-damaged sails for the whole range. Up to me to live with that, perform when under- and over-powered, play with the gear in all whether, and improve along the way.

Donno that SUPs are gonna be the panacea, other than opening up new markets again for hungry manufacturers.

great point , pierrec45, !
I have been myself caught up in the manufacturer' hype ..
I spent 100 dollars for an old wayler one design windsurf board , it has a semidisplacement type hull , and the first owner had cut the rear fin down to a nubbin and relied on the big daggerboard to win races in the 1980's .. I rigged the thing up with modern sails ,6.5 and 7.3 sails and was totally blown away at how much fun the thing is gliding in the barest of winds and how exciting it becomes in 10 to 14 mph winds, I even used it as an SUP board just pulling the daggerboard out , and my family has had great fun paddling it around ..
http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1892.0

yet , I just plunked down more than 10x as much money for a Bic Jungle , go figure . !

Chris249 has sailed SUPs and longboard-windsurfers. He said the SUPs have too much rocker to work well as a longboard-windsurfer. Having said that maybe the new 12'6" Starboard has less rocker for the centerboard version.



I sail/paddle in murky water, so for me a retractable centerboard is a must.




I agree. I've paddled both the original Windsurfer hull and the Kona One. The Kona One will do it, but the Windsurfer is a marginally faster and doesn't turn as much when paddled. The Windsurfer is also going to take paddle hitting easier.



Some that have sailed SUPs say they are better up wind than they thought they would be. Personally, I wouldn't buy one without a retractable centerboard. Even when paddling you can lower the centerboard for increased stability in side-on chop. Also you can lower the centerboard to make the board more paddle-steer responsive when getting blown off course. (Yes, at this point I should be sailing, but sometimes you get caught out with a rising wind speed).

Great points all , Nobody! I have had some experience sailing and paddling my Wayler one design and my Bic Jungle with the same rigs and in the same conditions which is interesting ...

The Wayler is 259 liters weighs 55 lbs , 12' 6" and 26 3/4 " wide has some rocker in the nose but very little in the tail , has a semi displacement shape with sailboat like volume and shape in the nose flatter in the center with a roundish shape ... mine has a small nubbin rear fin (cut down by the previous owner ) and a deep daggerboard

The Bic Jungle is 175 liters weighs 25 lbs 10' 10" 28 inches wide , has definite surf rocker in both the tip and the tail but a flat wide section in the middle , it has a 28cm rear fin and around a 55-60cm daggerboard ( I have to measure the thing )

The Wayler , has totally amazing glide in very light winds .. and goes up wind in moderate wind like a sailboat ( I also sail a Laser dinghy) .. For those windsurfers like myself who have not recently experienced how a longboard glides in lightwind and sit on the beach until planing winds occur .. they don't know what they are missing ... I think it is this glide that really distinguishes the Longboard feel , as well as the upwind performance .. Compromise designs which try to incorporate more SUP prowness and especially standup paddle surf prowness , have the potential of killing off what makes the longboard design so good .... ( long and narrow , of course is where it is at in long board design )

Having experienced the Wayler , I was very , very worried how the Jungle with a wider shorter shape with surf rocker in the nose and tail would perform as a sailboard. Getting on the Jungle as a paddleboard it is immediately apparent that it paddles better then the Wayler .. the design of the flat center and wider shape in the center makes it much more stable ... interestingly to me the glide is still there for paddling and I am able to track straight with paddling which is very nice ...
As for sailing .. again I was very pleasantly suprised ... certainly it does not quite reach the performance of the old Wayler in gliding in very light wind and the Wayler goes upwind better in moderate wind but the glide that makes longboards so much fun is most definitely there in very light winds. . on the positive side the Jungle is much more manuverable , and actually can get on a nice plane with the daggerboard removed , and is very controllable tacking and gybing in planing winds .. I spent a lot of time in my early days of windsurfing on a 10'10" F2 Comet 170liter " funboard" with retractable daggerboard and the Jungle has much of the feel of that old board albeit in a more stable and wider shape ...

I am not sure exactly what went on in designing the Bic .. but I know that they tried to get their surf and windsurf designers working together to produce the best compromise shape and to a great extent .. I think they have succeeded with the Jungle probably definitely more oriented to the SUP , wave sailing , surfing side of the spectrum than flat water longboard sailing but still very , very competent as a longboard sailboard..

Interesting comparing the specs of the Kona One vs the new Starboard Sup'er 12-6

Kona One 11 '6" 70 cm wide 65cm retractable daggerboard with 46cm fin , Starboard Super 12-6 77cm wide 57cm retractable daggerboard 23cm rear fin
( I think the new Starboard 12-6 is based on the current Starboard 12-6 rocker and should have more rocker than the Kona One )
Interesting comparision will be sailing performance of these two boards head to head and also paddling performance . I predict the Kona One will take the trophy as the better sailer and the Starboard Sup'er the better SUP paddler .. the question I think will be how close the Sup'er can come to the Kona one in sailing prowness ....

here is the new starboard 2009 website product description on their Sup'er 12-6
http://star-board.com/2009/pages/products/v_sup.php

Hi jjue,

I'm glad your happy with the Jungle. It is interesting to see the differences between the Jungle and the Wayler.

On comparison of what I can read of the SUPer 12'6" and sailing the Kona I think they are both dual purpose boards, just with different design objectives.

The Kona is probably best described as a long-shortboard in high winds and a short- longboard in light winds. This is mainly due to the step-tail. Probably the most versatile board you can currently buy for recreational use, hence the popularity.

From what I can see of the SUPer 12'6", it should be a SUP-longboard which should do both quite well for recreational use. It would probably be competent to sail in displacement, but because of the rocker, the SUPer 12'6" will likely be slower when planing.

I would go as far to say they their purposes make them most similar in longboard mode and they would compliment each other for different ends of the wind scale. Having said that, time and magazine tests hopefully will bring out what the Super 12'6" is really like.

Hi Nobody , I really like your description of the Kona as a dual purpose board that doubles as a long shortboard or short longboard... as far as I can tell the Starboard Sup'er like many of the SUP boards that double as sailboards will not have footstrap inserts ... perhaps that is a clue that the board is really intended for the light wind end of the spectrum .. whereas the Kona was designed to have a huge wind spectrum including high wind planing performance.... the step tail design of the Kona , as you point out , as opposed to the standard rocker surf tail of the SUP boards in the Starboard Sup'er is also a design clue to the different purposes...